Melvin McLeod: Tell us about writing your new book The Robe and the Sword: How Buddhist Extremism Is Shaping Modern Asia.
Sonia Faleiro: It’s based on two years of research. I started out in India, where I was born, and which is, of course, the birthplace of Buddhism. I then traveled to Thailand, Sri Lanka, and the borderlands between Myanmar and Thailand.
Buddhism isn’t just the dominant religion in these countries. It’s the state religion. So, Buddhism has a very powerful role in politics and society and is influencing how these countries function.
My purpose was to investigate the Buddhist-inspired violence that’s been taking place over the last few years in South Asia and Southeast Asia. In Myanmar, it’s the genocide of the Rohingya Muslims. In Sri Lanka, we’ve seen ongoing attacks on religious minorities: Tamil Hindus, Muslims, and now Christians. In Thailand, it’s a matter of corruption and vices.
The role that Buddhists have played in all this is troubling for those of us who’ve studied the religion and admire it. What we’re seeing is that in many cases it’s monks who’ve supported or participated in this violence or incited it. This has been documented by human rights organizations. It is these facts that drew me to this story and to voyage across these countries.
Why has Buddhist extremism become so influential in modern Asia?
The extremist Buddhist monks have close ties with each other transnationally. They communicate via social media, and they travel and meet in person frequently. We’re seeing that these ideas are moving across borders, and what could potentially be confined to one area or even one country is now crossing borders. That makes this issue of potentially greater significance than it might have otherwise been.
Most if not all of the world’s religions have been used to gain political power or to rationalize violence. Why are we surprised when Buddhism falls prey to this?
That’s such a good question. I’m a Roman Catholic, and going to churches in Europe can be such a distressing experience because you know these incredible temples to God were actually built on blood money—on the backs of slavery and colonialism. And, of course, the Catholic Church has been plagued with more scandals than one can keep track of.
This is true of all religions, because who are the clergy, if not just regular individuals who fall prey to normal vices and influences? No religion is exempt. What was surprising to me, and then became distressing, was the level of violence connected to Buddhism, particularly the genocide of the Rohingya.
There’s a dissonance between the global idea of what Buddhism is and what a small number of people are doing, relative to the millions of people who practice Buddhism. It’s surprising because of how we understand Buddhism, particularly its emphasis on ahimsa, nonharming.
I think the violence being done by Buddhist extremists surprises people who don’t really understand how religion is practiced—that ultimately the practice of any faith rests on individuals, and individuals are prone to corruption, irrespective of which particular scripture they follow.
Nonetheless, Buddhist extremists must at least have to pay lip service to Buddhist principles. They have to find a way to reconcile their violence with the teachings, or even use Buddhist teachings to justify it. How do they try to do that?
They claim they have to protect Buddhism—that it’s their duty as Buddhist monks to do whatever needs to be done to protect Buddhism. That’s the justification they go with.
One of the most dangerous things politically is the conflation of religion and nationalism—when one religion is identified as a core element of the national identity, and nationalism is seen as an important expression of the religion. This often leads to alliances between governments and conservative religious establishments. This is happening in places like Russia, India, Israel, and the United States, where religious conservatives are allied with authoritarian or right-wing regimes, often targeting religious minorities. Is that what’s happening in the majority Buddhist countries you studied?
It’s exactly what we’re seeing. In all of these countries, Buddhism is the state religion and there’s a close relationship between the monastic sangha and the politicians. The politicians in power need the monks to validate them, to make the public believe that they’re the right choice to vote for. And the monks need the politicians to keep their rights secure and to maintain their privileges. It’s a relationship in which both elements rely on and feed off each other.
In Myanmar, there’s close proximity between the most powerful monks and the most powerful members of the junta. They work in lockstep, mirroring each other’s message, complimenting each other, supporting each other.
Sri Lanka is a democracy, but it’s had a lot of ups and downs, including a civil war over the past few decades. The government tends to be conservative with authoritarian tendencies. In Thailand, the royal family rules supreme, and you have to be very careful about what you say about them. The slightest negative stance can have you arrested. And in Myanmar, of course, there’s the junta.
In all three of these places, we’re seeing societies that are tightly controlled, where you need to align yourself with the government in power. So, we see monks aligning with these right-leaning or authoritarian governments. This is a survival strategy for some, and for others it elevates their position—it gives them power.
This mirrors what we’re seeing elsewhere in the world; dominant religious communities are claiming victimhood. They claim that minority religious groups or minority individuals are causing problems and that they’re likely to destabilize the nation or threaten the dominant religious identity. They’re using that excuse to get people to support the most populist and nationalist factions in the country.
In these Buddhist majority countries, prominent monks with large followings are essentially saying that this populist party or that authoritarian individual is good for the country because they’re going to protect us from this minority group, which is a threat to Buddhism and therefore to our very survival in this country. Again, we see this in various parts of the world in various forms.
Will the Buddhist establishments in these countries at some point draw a red line on the political activity of the extremists?
I don’t know what the red lines are. In Myanmar, we’ve seen a genocide that was incited and supported by prominent Buddhist monks, and the Muslims I’ve interviewed who recently fled Myanmar say the attacks are ongoing. The fear is very much a real and present thing.
I’ve interviewed many monks in Sri Lanka, Thailand, and Myanmar who are doing their best to form interfaith groups, to support victims, to draw attention to this violence. In Myanmar especially, they’re doing this at great risk to themselves. I interviewed at least half a dozen monks in Mesa, Thailand, where monks have had to flee because the junta is after them for standing up for Muslims. So, what’s the red line? It’s hard to say.
In Sri Lanka there have been two major incidents of violence over the past few years in which Muslims were targeted, and Muslims continue to feel like second-class citizens. This is also true to a large extent of Sri Lankan Christians and Sri Lankan Hindus. Incredibly disturbing environments have been created in these countries as a result of Buddhist nationalism.
Is there opposition to this extremism? Does anything give you hope?
We’re not seeing a large response to Buddhist extremism in these countries, but we’re seeing a thoughtful response. In Sri Lanka, for example, the response is being led by both monks and nuns. They’re working with other religious communities to educate each other about what’s happening, and those conversations are proving fruitful.
In Myanmar, there’s very little work that can be done without drawing the attention of the junta and risking being arrested and put away. So, we have a large number of progressive monks fleeing the country. They’re mobilizing outside the country to draw attention to what’s happening, so they can send money back and offer whatever protections they can to fellow monks and nuns, and also to religious minorities.
In Thailand, there’s an interesting movement of what I call Rebel Temples, which are focused on women and are run entirely by nuns. They’re attempting to respond to this crisis by changing, here and there, how they practice Buddhism. Patriarchy is baked into how the religion is practiced, and that needs to change. Buddhism at the level of the clergy and the orders needs to be more egalitarian, more welcoming of women. Then perhaps there could be a power shift that might in some way address these challenges we’re witness to.
These are the responses that are taking place, and it’s something to take heart from. I think they’ll continue to grow. People will continue to mobilize because they’ve seen what happens to other religions when these excesses are allowed to take over, and they don’t want that to happen to Buddhism.
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